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does art have the intrinsic power to heal us? or rather...are all artists bad before they become artists?

yes, yes, i know.....the snobbery that that exists betwixt the 'professionals' and those suffering from mental illness (art therapy) is clearly evident...but why I ask you?
surely, if we are all honest with ourselves, hasn't being artists helped us to avoid:
1)prison
2)the sanitorium(nuthouse((U.K.))
3)suicide
4)wallowing in our own little puddle of self pity
5)poverty
6)office jobs(links back to 2))
7)becoming stale, boring, subservient gits
8)outrageous drug abuse
etc etc
Personally, I'm intrigued......the world could implode any minute but there'd still be an artist there to document it! to either rationalise or irationalise it of course!

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Yes. Sure. But I think I turned more bad after I started to do art full time. I lost my repression and came
into my true self. But now I am more balanced again than when I started that. I still get a tremendous
feeling of joy and competence and articulation and so on when I am doing my art.
i guess i might fit into the same echelon......
i was bad....now I'm badder
great grammer!
C'est une question que je me suis souvent posée!!
Before being able to say I was an artist, I felt very misfit..
After working two years in an Architect Studio, 3 years as AD in and Advertising Agence, and one and a half year in the Press, I thought I was becoming MAD...
But I won much $ success and recognition. I was really successful and my parents were very proud of me...
I really thought I would be nuts. Impossible to insert. My ideas always went the opposite way the bosses wanted! So I ended to think that to avoid spy, sanatorium or prison, I'd rather get out of here... I really attended a spy during 3 years.. At the end of this period, I realized I had analysed the psy and that my own way was the same. So I decided that to insert somewhere, I'd better insert with myself!
Since, I say "shit" to everybody when is serves me. This is a question I do not ask anymore..
I took a very long time before admitting to myself (and to the world) that I was an artist.
I heard people say on my behalf: Oh! do not mind it, he is an artist!"
I ended to believe it a little since the day some "Big Art Names" said to me: "You are an artist!"
So I thought that maybe I had the right to say it so, with all modesty apart!
But even since, it took so long before feeling OK in my basket shoes!
Some times, I come back to the starting block!
Sometimes I happen to think that I'd better be Rabin, Jesuit or Pasteur, unfortunately I do not have this vocation...
Sweet dreams,
When I work on my painting, I really find a balance. My problem is that I am NEVER satisfied and in search of something i cannot define! I get much more pleasure in my projects, in my research than in the realization. I find a quite good balance when I write, and much more when what I write is published!
Good balance!
Don't feel bad, Joe. I teach english as a second language, and I recently used the word "hottened". It made comic sense at the time...my brother asked if english was MY second language!
I am totally outside the mainstream, making rocks into paint...I've always been an artist (and bad) no matter what anyone says. In the meantime, I paint...
Laura Z
Hi Joe, hope some of this is to the point...
personally I've found all expectations of me to be a little erroneous.
i used to argue with my parents against going to school.
later there was the expectation that as my father was a vicar that I'd go off the rails.
schoolmates used to ask 'are you on drugs?' as I seemed not to really fit in and was interested in drawing.
then there was my art teacher who said I didn't have the right character to make it as an artist - I wasn't flamboyant or extrovert enough or something.
I myself tried to avoid art being my career, opting for mathematics, design, and human geography courses.
maybe it is an urge to create, to ask questions, to refuse to take for granted the world we are in, or accept what we are told, that drives us?
or maybe an openness to failure?
I'm inspired by my mother, Marion Olsen, who, during a serious illness in her 50s, began learning to draw and using colour and six months later, having secretly borrowed lots of money to frame work, had a very successful exhibition selling sixty paintings.
I had a period when I was consumed by a pervasive anxiety lasting for many months. Did being an artist help? Did art help? I remember having to flee an exhibition at the Hayward because I was suffocating. Everything gets mixed up in the soup. It was someone listening to me and talking with me and caring for me and giving me reflexology one afternoon that was a turning-point on the long road to well-ness.
Art - when it is the expression of someone listening to the world, interacting and communicating with the world - can reach deep inside us and help change our perceptions, open our selves to possibilities for growth and creativity.
Before we become artists..? Was there a before? or are you on the brink of saying you're not an artist until someone else says you are? I think it is rather that being a person is accepting yourself as you are, the good and the bad, artist or otherwise.
One artist I know decided to reject all communication with me because (as I understood it) he felt the only way to truly experience the world was to suffer to the very depths and that is what makes great art... As artists we comprise all sorts. I think there is a part of us attracted by these different experiences you list. Maybe behind it we feel we have failed to share in these experiences and compensate with empathy towards those who have.
wow...........
i am flabbergasted...
and i haven't dug that word out of my vocabulary for a long long time,
hence my surprise.
i err towards your sentiments but am not quite in agreement.....

suppose, you have experienced all these awful situations/endgames/end-results? what then?
does the act of creativity become less than that which is academically construed?

if, as i have, for the last few years, u were to hermitise yourself(i think i made that word up!) how would u feel coming out of artistic cryogenic stasis to see the art-muppets/emins of this world, had been extracting craftily/commercially/taking the urine? if art has to be sensational to be good, why can't skill/talent/craftsmanship be an integral part of that melange? the driving force for me has always been the notion that, and 'cypress hill' said it so eloquently...""what goes around , come around kidddd!...or the beatles, i"nstant karma's gonna get u".....i have to be true to myself in order for me to believe in anything that anyone else says, good or bad......
i have an outrageous self-protection mechanism that inhibits creativity sometimes....
but u have to look after your own interests, or the puppet, begat the muppet, begat the wanky politician...eh?
i am on the fence
hence the constant ranting,
i am not a happy bunny
but i cant do it with the uber-plethora of gits that surround me...ho ho ho
i would instantly have a) no-one to booze with and b) a shit life
clandestine smirking is the way.....you get yours and they get theirs
regards
j
;D
i have the benefit(burden)of experience from both sides of the coin so to speak
neither is more worthy than the other and therefore neither should take the wheel/take over

simply enjoy the language you have created and deciphered and bollocks to those who want to read more into it...i'm sure there are more eloquent philosophers out there that would happily absorb and warrant their attention more than us urchins who merely survive by proxy( by which i mean, if we do stuff, do we want it to be seen and therefore bought?) art4thought eh?
surely that is the antithesis to a creative mind?.....
if u need others to support u why say anything interesting at all?
(devils advocate)
Art is therapeutic for all. Everyone deserves the chance to make art in some way at any age, with
any ability. My mother and grandmother found artistic abilities in their late years, and after illness.
All creative arts are good, music also. That is why there are programs for seniors in nursing homes also.
Art is always another means of expression.
I'd like to know what scientific evidence exists to show that art is therapeutic in any way shape or form - rather than swallow mere anecdocal opinion. I have nothing against ''Outsider Art'' and happily concede some of it to be very good but know of no miracle cure qualities. Does anyone? Do tell.

Also are we talking about the making of - or the viewing of - or the owning, buying and selling of art? These are three distinct spheres of experience.

If we are talking of the ''making'' of it, I think the argument gibberish. Look at the criminals, perverts and thoroughly bad people who were rather good at making art but still criminals, perverts and thoroughly bad people.

I'm very fond of art but think it should be recognized for what it is - and not ponced and nonced up as some low rent urbane petit bourgeois visual prozac.

What do you think, Joe?
Hi Inga
Are you saying that making something that you learn from is therapeutic - not necessarily making art?
Thanks for the clarification Inga.

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